60 RAPPERS IN 60 DAYS: Birdman

By Benjamin Meadows-Ingram
The No. 1 Stunna talks '98, Lil Wayne's Rebirth

For years, Bryan “Baby” Williams, 40, has made one thing clear: He’s not a rapper, he’s a game-spitter. It’s a distinction that should carry more weight in hip hop purist circles than it does. While Baby aka Birdman aka The No.1 Stunna’s mic skills may be debatable, there’s no denying his G.
As co-CEO of Cash Money Records—a title he shares with his brother and (nearly) silent partner Ronald “Slim” Williams—Baby is a throwback to a different era of rap execs, when the guy behind the guys was exactly the type of guy you didn’t want to see in the streets. As a rapper, he’s blunt and direct, fascinating in his audacity and surprisingly melodic with his flow.
In person, Baby is laid-back and hospitable, a posture undeniably afforded by years of earning his stripes. His loyalty to Lil Wayne, who he brought into the CMR fold when Wayne was just 11 and who he often refers to as his “son,” can be viewed with cynicism through one lens, but seen through another, is downright admirable. However you choose to interpret it, there’s no denying Baby, father of one of the most successful rap labels of all time. How you love that?
VIBE: First off, let me just congratulate you on the last year and a half.

Baby: No doubt, homie. Appreciate the love, bruh.

For sure. I know you put in a lot of work over the years to make that happen so in terms of that, I actually wanted to talk to you specifically about ’98. Obviously, you were there so you know what a big turning point that year was both for Cash Money and for the industry as a whole.
That was our first year. That was our first big year. That was the first year we really put out the name of it when we was with Universal when we was independent.

What was that time like for you and the label?

Shit, for us, we was just doing music, dog, ya heard me? Honestly, we was just rapping. Young, you know, doing it for ourselves, doing it for the ’hood, doing it for the block. Not as well educated as we is now with music and what it’s really about and the business of it. We was young and we was just having fun, bruh, just rapping.

I’ve always heard that it was the Hot Boys’ first album, Get It How U Live, that got you guys the deal.

Well, the album that got us the deal was the Big Tymers album [Ed: How U Luv That]. We had sold like 150,000 independent on me and Fresh’s [Big Tymers] album. At the time, Wayne, Juvie and all them, they was still young but we had did the Hot Boys album I think after that, or before that. But the album that got us the deal was the Big Tymers album. Then we was supposed to come with B.G.’s album but B.G. wasn’t ready at the time so we came with the Juvenile record and then it just blew up.
Do you remember those first phone calls from the majors when you were still independent?

Well going from independent for me and for us, we was putting music out on the regular. Every week, every other month, every month. So for me to adjust to a major, it was kind of a big shift because they like to set records up. I ain’t know nothing about setting records up. I knew we go hit these streets, promote this shit. We had a following, and we put the music out. So people were wanting our music and waited for our music. So once I got with Universal it was an adjustment ’cause they believe in setting the records up and that shit took months. It took two or three months just to set the single up. So I had to get in there and really educate myself to how they do things on a major level.


Do you remember getting calls about the deal, I mean, just how it all came about?

To me, I wasn’t really interested in it. We went up there. Really honestly, we lost a lot of friends and homies for the success. A lot of blood came with this life, with this music. Losing my momma, my daddy, my brother, my homies, Wayne’s daddy. You know, I feel like we had a lot of blood on this money and I didn’t wanna go up there and give these people something that we lost blood behind. So I refused to give up anything. I’ll do a P&D deal where we still own everything. I didn’t want to give up nothing we worked hard for. We really had blood on this money from losing family members. And my approach was, I wasn’t giving up nothing. We was already making millions of dollars independent and still hood. Straight out the projects, independent, making millions. People owed us so much money to where they was trying to slow us down on putting out music. So for me, when I went to [the label], either they’re gonna give me a lot of money and I’m not giving them nothing, or I can go back and do what I was doing. We was satisfied. We really didn’t wanna make a deal anyway ’cause we felt like they was gonna try and break us up and take our shit from us some kinda way.
And just to be clear, a P&D deal is…?

Press and distribute.

So did you guys get multiple calls or was it just Universal who called?

Oh, we spoke with everybody. Everybody. Anybody and everybody that was in the industry. I met with Def Jam; they turned us down. Russell said he didn’t like our artwork. I met with Sony; he said he didn’t like us. We was too gangsta, too ghetto. They wasn’t on that Southern shit. They was on that slick shit, you know, that smooth shit. They said we was too hard. I met with everyone and I got tired of meetings with motherfuckers. I like what Universal was doing and me and Tony Draper [Ed: Founder and CEO of Suave House Records] was cool. I liked what they was doing with 8Ball. I knew we had the streets. I needed the vision. And I liked how they was working on MJG and 8Ball so I chose to go with them. And they ain’t wanna take nothing.


Were you meeting all through ’97 or did that all happen right there in early ’98?

I don’t really recall, but it was all happening simultaneously. I’d leave, have meetings with them, then the other one would slide out and we’d slide back. I got tired of the dinners and champagne. Fuck all that. Who got the money? What we doing? Y’all wasting my time. I’m good at what I’m doing. Either y’all do this how we want to do it or I’ll just go back to what I’m doing. I ain’t really give a fuck. My attitude was like, let’s do it or fuck you. I’m gonna do what I was doing.

In the end, you guys landed such an unprecedented deal. Where did you get the model for the deal?

I grew up around business. My daddy was a businessman. And I just didn’t really want to lose nothing. I watched it. I studied this shit. I watched Suge Knight, Tony Draper, Eazy-E, Jermaine Dupri, P. Diddy, Master P–I watched these dudes and I didn’t wanna make the same mistakes that I saw. I wanted to own 100 percent of my shit as I do right now today. We own 100 percent, we still a P&D deal and they don’t even allow that type of shit in the music industry. And I refuse to give up anything. This is what y’all get and this is what we make.

Do you remember the day you guys actually did the deal, when all the paperwork was signed? Were you a part of that or was it more like your lawyers did that?

I mean, our lawyers did the negotiation. We had to sign the shit. I told them what I wanted. Yeah, we did it May 10, 1998, bruh. Every year, I know that’s [another] year we turned around.

Do you remember what that day was like? Did you get everybody? Were you guys all in New York? Were you in New Orleans?

Um, really we wasn’t tripping on the money ’cause I was already excited with being in the meeting. That was a meeting I’ve looked forward to since I was 17, 18 years old. And when I did that deal I was older so the money wasn’t more exciting than what we wanted to do with the music. The plan was we wanted to make hit records and be in this shit for a long time. It was about us being a family and with each other, when one hot the other ain’t. We rode off each other. That was my plan. That’s how I did that. That’s how I structured that shit. If one nigga was hot, everybody rode ’cause the heat gonna swing around. That one person won’t always be hot because if you didn’t have a family, after your album comes out, the next nigga’s album comes out. We stayed aboard like that. That’s how I structured that shit.

So did you guys go to dinner or anything after you signed the deal or was it kinda just like you went to work?

Um, well we was already doing dinner. We was already cool so for us we just broke bread and went in the lab. We just excited to be out the ’hood, to come out the projects and to have money. The shit really felt like a fuckin’ dream the way we went from having nothing, growing up in poverty, in the projects, to having millions of dollars at a young age—17 or 18 years old. It felt like the most exciting thing that could ever happen. A youngster my age with millions of dollars ain’t got a clue who I’m raising and they millionaires. And I’m a youngster myself raising youngsters in this music shit. This is what we’re gonna do. This is what we’re gonna do because I didn’t want these niggas to have to pull this lifeline that I was about to pull. So I wanted a better life for them, so I chose music and that’s what we stuck with.

Was it just you and your brother in New York doing the deal or was it everybody?

Nah, it was just us.

Did you call everybody else and let them know or did you just come back down.

Honestly, I let everybody make a decision. Really honestly, they didn’t want to do it.

Really?

None of them wanted to be with a major. Juvie comes from a major and he had fucked up experiences with them and he didn’t want to do it. Wayne wanted to do it. Geezy wanted to do it. Fresh didn’t want to do it. I was like, man, fuck it. It’s the only way we gonna grow because we’re outgrowing what we doing. So I was like, man, we about to settle this shit. I’m about to go get this money they got and gonna see what it do. We probably gonna expand ’cause at the time motherfuckers was fuckin’ with our Hot Boys shit getting us confused ’cause you know they had the No Limits out there. I was like, man, y’all can go out there. But you got to let the world know that we are the Hot Boys. This is our shit, our music. We doing this shit but the world don’t know. From New Orleans throughout the South, Houston, and all these other cities, they knew who we was but the world didn’t know.
What was the atmosphere like in terms of No Limit and you guys around that time?

I mean, shit, to me, Master P was one of the best hustlers to ever do this shit. He did it big—35 albums in one year, bruh. Ain’t nobody ever did that. I think he did it one of the best. I think Master P accomplished something nobody ever did and probably nobody will ever do, too. To where today that seems damn impossible. I just stayed focused on what we was doing. I ain’t never wanted to be what the next man was doing. I respect what they accomplished.

But like you said, they were out there, they had major label distribution. It was time for you guys to…

Yeah, they was out there before us. And I used to watch and I always knew, not just with them as a whole, what was going on in the business at the time, I felt like we was that shit. It was just a matter of us getting our opportunity. And once we got that, that’s how it went down. We became the shit. I knew we had talent. I knew I had something with Wayne (the youngest), Geezy, Juvie, Me, Fresh—I knew we had six different individuals with six different talents. It was just six of us that broke down into like 10 groups. We had the Big Tymers, we had the Hot Boys, and everyone had solos. We had the sound, we had the new sound, we had the language, we had the slang, and we was brand new. We was fresh. We was hood with that shit. Not these shiny suits and all this; when we come on the scene ain’t gonna be no shiny suits. We come with T-shirts from the projects. Hot girls with hot boys.

You guys were really big money but really hood at the same time.

When we came in the game was really changed. The shit was changed, and you know hip-hop change like fashion. You got to be prepared for what it do when it do it. You just got to be on deck. You have to be the trendsetter to set the trend like we always have been.

Was 400 Degreez already done when you signed the deal?

Basically, yes.

And then obviously you guys got national distribution for that album. Did it feel different putting that project out once you had the deal set?

Yeah, because it was a different process for us. The way they work the records and did the whole system was brand new for me. And I really take my hat off to Miss Jean Riggins. Our first meeting with Universal, I didn’t understand not a fucking thing they was talking about. Man, y’all ain’t on the same level we on and we had less communication in there. And that was the first time and the last time ’cause after that she really became like momma to us and sat us down and showed us how to make money with this shit. She was the best thing that ever happened to us ’cause she showed us how to really make money. This is how you do this, this is what you do, this is how you do that. She sat us down and really showed us how it go.

Sounds invaluable.

I salute her to death. She taught us, but she probably don’t know how much we took what she taught us.

I remember toward the end of that year Jay-Z got on the “Ha” remix. What impact did that have, if any?

I mean, just the embracement. You know, [in] the South, we was real big where we come from and he do his thing up top. The embracement that was needed. At that time, wasn’t no niggas really on other niggas songs and there wasn’t no features like that. Man, you talking 10 years ago. Wasn’t nobody really doing no features like that. And for him to do that at the level he was, it was big.

When you look back and remember that time, what stands out?

Us just getting out the ’hood, being able to do for our families, buying Benzes, and buying houses for our people. That was the most important thing to me, that I was able to show the homies a different way of life where they ain’t have to take the penitentiary chances that was took already. They was able to buy five fuckin’ Bentleys. We still in the projects. Bought moms ’n’ them a crib. We addicted to the ’hood so we ain’t never left the motherfucker. That was the pleasure of it, for me—to see our moms, ’cause my mom is deceased, but to watch they mamma enjoy what we wasn’t able to do, at such a young age. You know, when Wayne bought his momma a house, he was probably like 15 years old. You know, and that was a pleasure for me. I felt like I did what I had to do. I started something that we got to finish.
Are you working on anything else currently, outside of running the label?

I got a lot of shit, bruh. We in a business and we know how shit go, we know how to make a profit. I know this shit backwards, been doing this shit for 20 years. But we also have other business that we do, too. I have a publishing company that’s within music that’s growing. Nowadays you have to be conservative with your investments, bruh, ’cause people play so many games and you don’t want publicity on your money. So I’ll be more conservative and I’m good with my wealth, bruh, and I’m good with knowing how we make money. We sell records, we go on tour, ya heard me, homie? You got to look at it nowadays both sides, bruh, when it’s sweet and when it’s sour, and you got to sacrifice ’cause it’s really hard times. I come from it, but nowadays you know I got to help make sure my family straight. I got my son’s family, I have to help watch my loved ones and make sure that we always good. I don’t want to be one of these niggas who did this shit and when it’s over he acting like he ain’t never had nothing. Nah, man. When I done this shit, I did it. And when it’s over, I still done it. My money good, we good, my family good and when it was all said and done, as long as money here, we good, bruh. But no money is bullshit. As long as you got money everybody happy.

What can you tell us about the new album?

My album comes out June 7, bruh. It’s called Priceless. I did my first single with me and Wayne, and I have another single with Cool & Dre. I got T-Pain on there. I got Mack Maine on there, just kept it in the family and you know…Probably one of the best projects I’ve done did so far as a solo artist.

What makes you say that?

Growth, bruh. You goin’ see the growth, even with Wayne, every time you hear us, you goin’ hear growth. That’s what it’s all about as an artist: growing. I can do this CEO shit in my sleep, but as an artist I love to be creative. I love to be the Birdman.

How exciting do you find making records to be these days?

Very exciting. The most exciting is my son, Mack Maine. He a young homie. You know I been doing it for a long time but they really bring me…it’s like a new world. Young Money is the new world and I enjoy being around ’em, working with ’em, ya heard me? Teaching ’em, showing them shit and me watching them, growing with them growing, ya heard me? ’Cause I grew in it with a different crew. Now I’m watching them grow and watching them make me feel good.

You’re obviously excited about Lil Wayne’s Rebirth?

I’m excited about anything my son do, bruh. I feel that he the best that ever did this shit.

Is there anything in particular about his album that you want to put out there?

It’s special, it’s very special, but Wayne, man, he so unique, dawg, he impresses me, and that’s my son I watch him work. That shit be impressive like a motherfucker. I been there from day one, so for me, I have a different look at the way we listen to music you know. I like for the people to judge it but it’s beautiful and special, everything we do that’s just us

Are you surprised at all, thinking about ’98 to now that this is the album that you guys are working on and gearing up for? That it sounds like this?

Well, that’s him, you know? He think big, bruh. He think of growing and to be around doing this shit as long as we have and to do it as long as he wants to do it, you have to be able to grow. For him to do this, he is looking at an expansion of growing to different realms of music, bruh. You know we do 20,000 people a night. We trying to grow to 50,000 to 100,000 people a night and to do that you have to do different types of music. But we know where we come from and we know what we about. We ghetto to death with this shit and that’s what we is, you understand me, but we just doing different things. We do music with all types of people. And to do these things you have to do different things.

So for you, you weren’t particularly surprised. It’s more the evolution.

For me, I think it’s a beautiful thing. I think it’s great. I think it’s artistic, you understand me, ’cause I know can’t anybody do what he does. For me, I like the challenge of being able to market that. That’s my good thing. I like to be able to market this to the world and let them see what we about. Get them to understand what we’re trying to accomplish. I love a challenge, there’s a definite challenge. I love that, I love being able to make these young boys stars. Watching over my son, watching them be like daddy. Watch how we make these different acts and blossom in this shit. I love that, like the Kevin Rudolf was the biggest challenge for us. And look at him—he’s a superstar right now,

Yeah, that surprised me. And then you guys won with it.

Yeah. We got an artist from overseas named Jay Sean, got one called 9-11. You know, the brand at this point we can take on all these different types of music with all these different nationalities, it’s a web of who we are. And we tried to do this shit 10 years ago, we used to have to hide that. Now, the brand stands for that, which is great. I love that, too, ’cause that’s a challenge. It give me more of an opportunity to be what I want to be in this shit. I got in this shit to be a CEO, I had rapped ’cause I was kind of forced to do it and I loved the art of rap and I love to be the Birdman, but I also love being Bryan Williams, CEO. This is what I do.

Press play to watch the video for "What Happened To That Boy" by Birdman feat. The Clipse from the album, Birdman (Cash Money, 2002)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkGPKSHpHeQ
Press play to listen to "Pop Bottles*" by Birdman feat. Lil Wayne from the album, 5 * Stunna (Cash Money, 2002
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qPq6wdjkXA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmRjz6V78X0